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You are here: Home / DOT Medical Requirements / New FMCSA Medical Certification Requirements – Deadline Approaches

New FMCSA Medical Certification Requirements – Deadline Approaches

November 12, 2013 By Trucker Docs™ 56 Comments

 

The new FMCSA medical certification requirements affect all CDL holders.

Many CDL holders are still confused as the deadline approaches.

 

The Federal Requirements

If you’re a CDL holder, here’s what you need to know about the new FMCSA medical certification requirements:

Deadline – January 30, 2014

  1. Self-Certification Affidavit: You must self-certify the type of commercial motor vehicle operation you drive
  2. Medical Examiner’s Certificate: If you operate in certain types of commerce, you must also provide a current medical examiner’s certificate.
  3. Variance Document: If your medical examiner’s certificate is only valid with a vision, diabetes or a skills performance evaluation variance granted by FMCSA, you may also be asked by your SDLA to provide a copy of that variance document.

 

You Must Report This Information To Your SDLA

You must provide this information to your State Driver License Agency by the January 30, 2014 deadline or your CDL is at risk.

Each State is responsible for reporting the information into the Commercial Driver’s License Information System (CDLIS), which is a nationwide computer system based on the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations.

Once provided, your certified medical status will be kept as part of your driving record.

 

The Responsibility Falls On The CDL Holder

Confusion abounds because each State has its own process for collecting this information and getting it into the Commercial Driver’s License Information System (CDLIS).

Some States have been preparing for this reporting requirement since January 30, 2012.

If you’ve had a CDL transaction such as a new CDL, a renewal, upgrade, endorsement, or transfer since 2012, you may already be in the system. If you’re not sure, then it’s best to check with your SDLA.

Many States have mailed notices to drivers. If you have a different mailing address than the address recorded on your license, you may have missed the notice.

The bottom line is that the responsibility falls on the CDL holder to make sure their driving record is updated with this information by the deadline, January 30, 2014, or they risk their CDL being downgraded or suspended.

Reports such as an Ohio news story, late September 2013, show that a large number of CDL holders  (120,000 according to Ohio BMV) have not self-certified and risk losing their CDL privileges.

Some drivers are aware that “something’s up” and have heard about it, but don’t really know what “it” is, and have no idea how it impacts them, or what they’re supposed to do.

 

How To Provide This Information To Your SDLA

The process for providing this information to your SDLA differs from State to State.

DOTPhysicalDOCTORS has compiled information to assist both commercial drivers and DOT doctors, on a state-by-state basis.

CDL - State Regulations

Check these links for instructions for your SDLA.
Please leave your feedback on the State page to help other drivers.

 Alabama     Alaska     Arizona     Arkansas     California     Colorado     Connecticut     Delaware     Florida     Georgia     Hawaii     Idaho     Illinois     Indiana     Iowa     Kansas     Kentucky     Louisiana     Maine     Maryland     Massachusetts    Michigan     Minnesota     Mississippi     Missouri     Montana    Nebraska     Nevada     New Hampshire     New Jersey     New Mexico     New York     North Carolina     North Dakota    Ohio     Oklahoma     Oregon     Pennsylvania     Rhode Island     South Carolina     South Dakota     Tennessee     Texas     Utah     Vermont     Virginia    Washington     West Virginia     Wisconsin     Wyoming

 

What Self-Certification Means

The Federal requirement focuses on Interstate Commercial Driving. If you drive interstate, unless you fall into ‘excepted’ categories, you must meet the Federal DOT medical certification requirements. Most CDL holders who drive CMVs in interstate commerce fall within the Interstate Non-Excepted category.

You must self-certify in one of these four categories:

  1. Interstate non-excepted: You are an Interstate non-excepted driver and must meet the Federal DOT medical card requirements.
  2. Interstate excepted: You are an Interstate excepted driver and do not have to meet the Federal DOT medical card requirements.
  3. Intrastate non-excepted: You are an Intrastate non-excepted driver and are required to meet the medical requirements for your State.
  4. Intrastate excepted: You are an Intrastate excepted driver and do not have to meet the medical requirements for your State.

For more information go to US DOT FMCSA official website.

How to determine what type of CMV operation you should self-certify:

Step 1. If you operate in both intrastate commerce and interstate commerce, you must choose interstate commerce.
Step 2. Decide from the Federal and State regulations if you fall into a non-excepted or excepted category.

TIP

Because you must decide on a single type of commerce category to certify, a recommendation would be to certify the category that keeps your driving options as open as possible.

  • If you can pass the DOT medical exam and meet the FMCSA requirements, then certify Interstate Non-Excepted to give yourself the most commercial driving opportunities.
  • If you cannot meet these requirements, you will have to certify in another category.

 

Why do commercial drivers have to do this?

This statement from Washington State Department of Licensing sheds light on this question:

In 2007, federal and state authorities found over 100,000 commercial vehicle drivers were operating illegally without valid medical certificates. Commercial vehicle crash data also shows that more than 3,000 truck crashes per year result from the driver having a heart attack or other physical impairment. Requiring self-certification and valid medical certificates will help to prevent medically unqualified drivers from operating commercial vehicles on our highways.

 

What If You Do Not Self-Certify and/or Meet The Medical Requirements By The Deadline?

If you don’t meet the new requirements by January 30, 2014 your SDLA will notify you that your CDL has being downgraded or suspended.

What this means to your CDL depends on your State requirements. The status on your CDLIS driver record will be changed to “not certified”. Each state differs in the number of days until the downgrade process is implemented. Each state differs on the time period at which you lose your CDL and are required to retest. Each state has their own requirements and fees to get back your CDL privileges.

 

Keep Your Medical Certificate Up To Date With Your SDLA

As of January 30, 2014 your SDLA will be monitoring the medical certificate expiration dates of all CDL holders. If your SDLA does not have a current medical examiner’s certificate in your CDLIS record, they will downgrade you to “not-certified”, and your CDL license may be downgraded or suspended.

Your SDLA will notify you that you are no longer medically certified to operate a CMV in non-excepted commerce. Make sure that they have a valid mailing address so you are aware if this situation arises.

TIP – Renew Your Medical Card Before It Expires

Your SDLA may take some time to update your records. To ensure that you maintain your CDL current, it’s probably best to renew your medical card a few weeks before it expires, and get this new information to your SDLA.

TIP – Not Driving But Want To Keep Your CDL

If you are not currently driving a CMV, and you want to maintain your CDL but are not in a position to certify for a medical certificate, or do not want to keep your medical certificate current, check with your SDLA. Your SDLA may allow you to self-certify in a category that does not require a medical certificate, if you state allows it.

Filed Under: DOT Medical Requirements, FMCSA Regulations

About Trucker Docs™

TRUCKER DOCS™ is a dynamic panel of DOT Certified Doctors helping Commercial Drivers through the DOT Physical jungle.
 
 
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Comments

  1. marshel w says

    February 23, 2021 at 7:41 pm

    my cdl expires 2/28/21 I live in the state of tn if I take my physical this week will it be too late the clinic I was suppose to go too last week was closed because of snow storm its a free clinic im unemployed and cant afford to go to any other clinic because I don’t have money to pay so what is your advice to me thanks in advance for your cooperation

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      February 26, 2021 at 8:37 pm

      @ marshel w
      Do the best you can with what you got, you’ll probably be OK. Do it al ASAP.

      Reply
  2. Libor says

    July 23, 2020 at 8:54 pm

    If I am not currently driving a truck and I do not plan to do it for 2 or 3 years.Do I need to renew my medical examination certificate in order to keep my CDL license?

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      July 24, 2020 at 11:59 am

      @ Libor
      Check with your state drivers license department, most states require a valid medical card to maintain an active cdl.

      Reply
  3. James D says

    March 18, 2020 at 8:11 am

    my MD cdl physical card needs renewed. are we given a extension for the coronavirus . we are asked to stay up to date ?

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      March 20, 2020 at 12:02 pm

      @ James D
      Most states are extending expiration dates on cdl’s. The federal government has not and medical card still expire on the cards expiration date, no extended grace period at this time from the fed.

      Reply
      • Joseph p says

        September 26, 2020 at 10:00 pm

        I never received any paperwork from motor vehicles for my medical card like I usually get every year how do I go about getting this information

        Reply
        • Jack w says

          September 26, 2020 at 10:10 pm

          Did New Jersey motor vehicles extend the expiration date on medical cards

          Reply
          • Trucker Docs™ says

            September 27, 2020 at 12:17 pm

            @ Jack w
            Not sure about states requirements, FMCSA did extend medical card expiration dates.

        • Trucker Docs™ says

          September 27, 2020 at 12:19 pm

          @ Joseph p
          You will need to check with your local drivers license department for the answer.

          Reply
  4. Timothy says

    August 10, 2019 at 3:02 pm

    This is by far the most bone headed thing I have seen the government pull yet. The law clearly states that if you operate a cmv for hire you MUST have a valid DOT Medical on you at all times. If a driver is stupid enough to not follow the law, then they are liable for fines and possible revocation of their license. It’s the law and there is not a single driver out there who can tell you they dont know it. Now, wearing g a seat belt is also a law, do we have to take a this is how you buckle up class every year? No because they would be linched if they tried to pull it. So other than being another sorce of revenue for our greedy government, this is the biggest scam pulled on the hard working drivers of the United states. If a pilot loses or fails to keep their DOT medical up to date they dont loose all the time and money invested to get their license, so why do we allow it? Stand up people and stop rediculas and repetitive laws like this that cost us millions if not more every year.

    Reply
  5. Steven H says

    January 26, 2019 at 8:53 am

    I am between driver jobs and so I paid my own 2 year physical exam fees and when I presented the paperwork to my local DMV office they noticed a doctor’s signature was entered in a space incorrectly where another doctor’s signature should have been. A slight technicality but nonetheless, I was instructed to have it corrected before resubmitting the forms again. My 2 year medical was just ending but the DMV informed me that it was okay since I was not employed and thus not driving a commercial vehicle. So I revisited the medical clinic and they fixed the mistake and corrected the paperwork. It has been nearly 4 months and I have not presented my revised medical paperwork back to the DMV yet…. (California). So my medical card expired October 15th, 2018. I still am not driving a commercial vehicle yet but plan to soon. Is this a problem for me yet? Thanks….

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      January 31, 2019 at 8:08 pm

      @ Steven H
      California has very strict regulations and your drivers license may already be suspended. Check with them as soon as possible to correct the issues.

      Reply
  6. Randy S says

    November 8, 2018 at 5:58 pm

    If I have a current self-certified DOT physical, that will not expire for a year, and I go to a new company and they make me get a new physical, and pass. I need to self-certify my new physical. Some states say it can take up to 10 days for it to be in the system. My question is can I still drive if I have a copy of my new physical but the state has not updated it yet? OR Do i have to wait till the states system is updated?

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      November 8, 2018 at 7:55 pm

      @ Randy S
      As long as you have a valid medical certificate, you are good. If stopped, simply explain the time delay between your self cert and bureaucratic paper work.

      Reply
  7. Joe says

    September 4, 2018 at 10:51 am

    I recently renewed my medical card. Paid $35.00 for the new physical by a certified examiner. My employer says that I must go to their doctor and pay $135.00 or lose my job. Do they have that right? Seems illegal to me. And definitely has ethical implications.

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      September 9, 2018 at 9:59 pm

      @ Joe
      Companies have their own policies, but if they demand then they should pay, pass or fail

      Reply
  8. Christine says

    June 3, 2017 at 4:00 pm

    One of my clients said that during their recent DOT Audit, the Special Inspector requested whether or not they had looked up the number of the provider of their driver’s DOT Physical listed on the driver’s medical card to insure it was legal and listed on the Federal Registry.

    I was unaware that DOT is looking at that, but love the fact they are. What type of verification document do they need on hand to prove they went through this process?

    Reply
  9. Christine says

    June 3, 2017 at 3:53 pm

    *Also, if employers need proof that their CDL drivers Medical Certificates are from valid DOT Physical Providers on the National Registrar, do they also need to do this for their Operators with Medical Certificates? It only makes sense, doesn’t it, both being professional drivers?

    *Additional comment: Why don’t some States recognize the importance of the Operators in a who drive 10,001 pound CMVs? They need everything under Federal DOT Regulations that the CDL drivers do, except the drug program?

    *Example: Why does a state like NH make the Operators of 10,001 pounds or more CMVs get their request for their own MVR, notarized? Don’t they understand they are just as important and professional as the CDL drivers, especially to DOT?

    Reply
  10. Edward O Jr says

    May 4, 2017 at 5:22 pm

    I hold a current Maryland CDL, my grandmother has taken ill I and my wife is considering which one of us will take time off to care for her. What I’m asking is if I can take a couple of months off and hold my license if I’m not driving a truck? can I self-certify as Intrastate excepted and not renew my current DOT card?

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      May 4, 2017 at 8:08 pm

      @Edward
      This process differs from state to state. You’ll need to check with your local drivers license department to see if they will let you do this.

      Reply
  11. Linda says

    April 26, 2017 at 9:41 pm

    I drive a school bus in Washington state. Once in awhile we have a field trip in another state. Should I certify interstate non except or Except? And do I need to bring in my med.card every time I get it renewed or just when I renew my cdl license?

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      April 27, 2017 at 10:48 am

      @Linda
      Certify “Non-Excepted Interstate”. You need to update your medical card with DLD as soon as you get a new medical card.

      Reply
  12. Greg says

    January 25, 2017 at 12:11 am

    I just passed my d o t med examination here in Cal., do I now have to take the forms to DMV ?

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      January 25, 2017 at 11:35 am

      @Greg
      Yes. Mail or walk in depending if you have less than 4 weeks left on your old medical card. See California CDL and DOT Medical Card Requirements.

      Reply
  13. Neena M says

    September 13, 2016 at 11:16 am

    Boy, I hate to beat a dead horse, but I would like to have your answer confirming what I’m thinking. We employ Class A and Class B drivers for a paving company located in OHIO . We currently ask them to have a valid medical card and include it in the employees DOT file. No employee drives outside the state. I get conflicting information when I call the local BMV offices. One office says because our drivers are not driving outside the state of Ohio, a valid medical card is not necessary. The other BMV office says whether it is required or not is determined by the company. The driver is not required to show the card to the BMV and it depends on how the driver has self certified. Can you give me a definitive answer? Should we continue to require, and pay, for our drivers to hold a current medical card when they are only driving within the state of Ohio?

    By the way, appreciate the clarity in your answers on your site. Thank you!

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      September 13, 2016 at 8:31 pm

      @Neema
      Most states require a valid medical card for Class A, B, & C, if the vehicle is being used for commercial purposes.
      See Ohio CDL and DOT Medical Card Requirements. A driver working for a paving company would have to self-certify “Non-Excepted”. This means that the driver would have to have a valid medical card.
      Some state BMVs only file interstate medical cards, not the intra-state medical cards – BUT – the driver still needs to be able to show a valid medical card e.g. if asked by a state trooper.

      Reply
  14. morris says

    August 16, 2016 at 2:45 pm

    my medical certificate expired and our Dr who does the examination is gone for two weeks is there a grace period or should I go to an outside provider

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      August 16, 2016 at 3:18 pm

      @Morris
      You cannot drive on an expired medical card.
      No grace period, and each state has a different process /time period as to when they downgrade your license.

      Reply
  15. Matt S says

    July 19, 2016 at 7:56 pm

    Hello – I am a CDL B driver and have a current medical card. I am not a professional truck drive as I work for a marketing company driving box trucks and small trailers around the country. My information is up to date and I am self certified in the Michigan database.

    I have a co-worker who is a non CDL, but he recently obtained a medical card in Michigan.

    Does he need to self certify online or is that only for CDL holders?

    Thanks for any input as we are completely unsure.

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      July 20, 2016 at 7:10 pm

      @Matt
      If he is intrastate only, it will depend on the state (Michigan).
      Best to contact your drivers license department for this answer.

      Reply
  16. Mark says

    April 4, 2016 at 5:25 pm

    Dot card expires on April 7 2016 just got out of hospital Drs are telling me I cannot take my dot physical until they release me in about 3 weeks what are my options thks

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      April 4, 2016 at 10:15 pm

      @Mark
      Let your local drivers license department know your situation. They have a policy designed to help you out in this matter.

      Reply
      • Mark says

        April 5, 2016 at 3:50 pm

        Contacted my local dmv they told me they had no options for me thks for your help

        Reply
  17. Jimmy K says

    January 3, 2016 at 12:55 pm

    If your medical card expires on March 2, 2016, how soon should you have the DOT medical exam submitted into your state DOT office? In 2014, my health card expiration was 3/16/15. I had my DOT physical on March 2, 2015 and it was submitted to TDOT with the date of the physical examination; therefore causing the expiration date on the health card changed from 3/16/14 to 3/2/2015. Now, my new expiration date is 3/2/2016. I will be seeing my physician prior to the expiration date to complete my health card requirements. My question is, what date should the physician put on the DOT physical, the date the physical was completed or the expiration date of the health card? Since I have to get the DOT physical prior to expiration, and submit to the state (TN) before expiration date, the date of expiration will continue to change from year to year. Should the expiration date of the medical card stay the same from year to year? Thanks in advance for your help.

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      January 3, 2016 at 9:43 pm

      @Jimmy
      The date of the examination is the date of the new card plus the time frame that the CME approved. You will want to do a new examination in enough time to get a copy to the state without having any issues, so do it before your present medical card expires. Date’s of expiration cannot exceed two years, so it will always be a date within a two year time frame from the examination date.

      Reply
  18. Brian Warren says

    November 6, 2015 at 11:30 pm

    Can a person with a defibrillator hold a CDL?

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      November 7, 2015 at 11:55 pm

      @@Brian
      According to the FMCSA, no interstate driver should be qualified if they have a defibrillator.

      Reply
  19. laura says

    September 21, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    Hi ok my husband has cdl class A bmv in columbus has wrong expiration date that what is on his card went to local bmv to change date now on certificate nurse that did examine for to put her register number so we can change expiration date at bmv been making lots of calls darn nurse doesnt practice at place he went to changed to different medical system noone has records to get register number how do I help him get number its a real problem someone of course wasnt doing job at front desk .Hopefully get some help dyer importantance Thank you! I have nurses name.

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      September 21, 2015 at 5:01 pm

      @Laura
      1. The place that did the DOT examination must have that nurse’s registry number.
      2. Even if they don’t, which is unlikely, they can look it up on the national registry.
      3. They have to keep records for 3 years, so they should have your husband’s paperwork on file.
      Otherwise, post a reply here with the nurse’s name, and the city and state, and we can look the number up for you.

      Reply
  20. Kelly says

    September 6, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    My fiance has a class A Cdl, and recently found out he has hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, the heart specialist cleared him, and he went back for his medical card with the paperwork and now the dot dr is appealing it. For now he has not worked in two weeks, and my question is, how long is the appeal process, and who makes the decision? Is there any way for us to find out? Thank u in advance.

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      September 8, 2015 at 12:36 am

      @Kelly
      Who is appealing what?
      Your heart specialist is not a CME and what is the CME appealing.
      The CME needs a medical release form from your heart doctor saying that the driver is ready to be tested to return to work because he is fit for duty.
      The CME will make that final decision, the driver is fit for duty and can return to driving. So not sure who is doing what here.

      Reply
  21. Tracy says

    February 24, 2015 at 5:37 am

    I own and operate 2 cattle farms. I purchased a semi in 2014 so I can transport equipment and supplies between these 2 farms ( about 10 miles apart ). I doubt I will ever drive more than 500 miles per year. Do I really need to maintain an annual physical in NC for such a limited operation? I do have high blood pressure controlled with medication, so I have to see my regular doctor every 6 months. Why can’t he issue the physical without me having to make a separate visit to another doctor who knows nothing about my overall health?

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      February 24, 2015 at 6:45 pm

      @Tracy
      Most of this should be taken up with your local state Driver’s License Department.
      There may be some “farm equipment” waiver that works better for you.
      And your local doctor can provide you with an examination, you just need to make sure, before hand, that your state is going to accept the examination paper work.

      Reply
  22. Tonya says

    December 12, 2014 at 9:37 am

    I have had a GA CDL for 24 yrs. In March 2014, I had what my neurologist assessed as an anxiety attack. After an MRI, CT Scan, and several other tests I was released back to work in May 2014. The DOT examiner did not agree with the release back to work and requested I have a “neuropsychiatric eval” and disqualified my CDL. The problem with this is when I tried to schedule appointments with either neurologists or psychiatrist no one understood why the DOT examiner would request this particular test. I have been back to work now since July, but recently was terminated because I still have not had this test. My primary physician, neurologist and myself disagree with the request. I don’t know what to do now to get my job back. How do I appeal this DOT examiners request? Is a neuropsychiatric eval a common request?

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      December 12, 2014 at 6:15 pm

      @Tonya
      First choice is to go to someone else. Someone is over-stepping their understanding of the FMCSA’s regulations.
      Second, you can enter into conflict with the examiner through the FMCSA. It may be a long drawn out process, but useful. You’ll need to search the FMCSA website for their conflict resolution information.
      If your primary doctors are comfortable enough to complete your medical release form for you, then take that with you to another facility and get a new medical exam.

      Reply
  23. rex says

    November 10, 2014 at 11:53 am

    I lost my cdl because i was just told I have Meniere’s disease . Does this mean you lose your reg. drivers license?

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs™ says

      November 11, 2014 at 8:25 pm

      @Rex
      I don’t believe so, but check for sure with your state drivers license department to confirm, or find out what procedures you need to do to maintain your driving privileges.

      Reply
  24. jermaine flowers says

    August 27, 2014 at 5:38 pm

    how long does a driver have to be on sleep apna machine before he is issued a medical card

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs says

      August 28, 2014 at 11:10 pm

      @Jermaine
      This is a long answer. Conditional certification is determined by the medical examiner. When you first start using CPAP you will be conditionally certified for one month…
      See this article for more information – Commercial Drivers Can Manage Sleep Apnea and Maintain CDL

      Reply
  25. Cory says

    August 8, 2014 at 4:28 pm

    I have a question I’m currently on a low dose of methadone now when I go for my dot card the day I start trucking school will they check for methadone? I’m almost off it but not yet

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs says

      August 8, 2014 at 5:38 pm

      @Cory
      Your DOT examination does not check for drugs, but your employer will.
      Don’t know how the driving school operates so I can’t point you in any direction for that one.
      Once you are off your meds, make sure you have a medical release form completed by your doctor and take it with you. Good Luck

      Reply
      • ted says

        January 14, 2016 at 6:23 am

        Your Kidding!! They WILL Test for drugs. !!

        Reply
  26. Ed Godsey says

    July 10, 2014 at 9:13 pm

    I work at a large elevator as there semi mechanic, I very rarely haul any grain. Was wondering if I could change anything so I don’t need a medical card. All I do is test drive trucks after being repaired.

    Reply
  27. Troy Hanson says

    February 28, 2014 at 7:30 pm

    I pump septic tanks in several counties but only in Illinois. As no one at the driver’s license facility was sure which box I was to mark on the self certification form after renewing my medical examiner’s card, I apparently chose incorrectly and was mailed a new form informing me that my choice was not clear. I marked the box, that I assumed was correct and faxed the information on November 30, 2013. Today (February 28th, 2014) I received a letter requesting my license to be mailed back to the secretary of state as it was being cancelled as of March 5th, 2014. I am a small business owner and the only one who operates our trucks (no employees) and can not afford to close my business due to the lack of understanding or help to get my documents completely correctly. The CDL Medical Unit was closed when I called immediately after opening my letter. I will be calling on Monday to hopefully get this situation straightened out, but was hoping you could tell me what box should be marked on my self certification form. I sent a second form with the NA marked on the second form. Please help!!!! Thanks 🙂

    Reply
    • Trucker Docs says

      March 5, 2014 at 12:38 am

      @ Troy
      In most cases, if you can pass the DOT medical examination, and you are operating your business as a cdl holder, then you probably want to check the non-exempt box. I have not checked the IL. self certification, but in UT. that would be the answer.

      Reply

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